Oct 25 2008

With This Proposition I Thee Wed….

Category: gay marriageamuzikman @ 6:36 pm

Here in California we have a proposition on the November ballot that would amend the state constitution, defining marriage as between one man and one woman. This issue has already been the subject of a  state-wide vote in California and in 2000 Prop 22 passed with a 61%-38% margin.  But four members of the California Supreme Court decided they knew better than the voters and declared Prop 22 unconstitutional, (and who says you can’t legislate from the bench?). Thus we now have Prop 8.

Prior to voting on this very important issue it might not be a bad idea to examine what has happened in Massachusetts since gay marriage was legalized there.

There is an article is posted on the website of a group called Mass Resistance, a self-described “pro-family action group” in Massachusetts. It is a sobering read.  Do not be naive, this issue is about MUCH more than simply being able to marry the one you love.

PLEASE take the time to read, “What same-sex marriage has done to Massachusetts”.  Then vote “yes” on Proposition 8.

click here to read the entire article

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54 Responses to “With This Proposition I Thee Wed….”

  1. harmonicminer says:

    Dave, too many logical flaws to list, and your reading and factual predicate gets sloppier and sloppier, as does your use of straw man arguments, and your apparent inability to see that items you quote frequently overturn your own argument. Beyond that, you focus inappropriately on minor details and miss large contexts… like how Obama’s pet “card check” initiative will impact unionization everywhere, including schools, regardless of Illinois law, and how the 75% rule combined with card check is likely to result in unionized charter schools, a fact Obama and the unions know. The point: the article you quote is not the only source of information in the discussion.

    So I’m done with this one. I simply won’t respond to it again. But I do encourage any readers who care to actually read this article and form your own conclusions about who is using it fairly.

    Hmm… I just checked the link above, and it seems the story is now so old that the newspaper has moved it to archives, for which it charges a fee to retrieve. So even the Trib is bored with the discussion.

  2. dave says:

    like how Obama’s pet “card check” initiative

    You think that the Employee Free Choice Act is Obama’s pet? That is funny, and not really remotely true. Unfortunately. If it were Obama’s pet, it would have a much better chance of passing.

    The point: the article you quote is not the only source of information in the discussion.

    So interesting that you say that, considering that you continue to claim things without one shred of evidence to support you.

    Hmm… I just checked the link above, and it seems the story is now so old that the newspaper has moved it to archives, for which it charges a fee to retrieve. So even the Trib is bored with the discussion.

    Huh? I just opened it without a problem.

    Still waiting for you to tell me how a certified teacher is a unionized teacher. But again, I will be waiting for a long time, because it isn’t true.

    Also still waiting for you to give me examples of Obama opposing charter schools and home schooling. But again, I will be waiting for a long time, because it isn’t true.

    And oh… look here. More evidence (the article is a few months old) that contradicts your baseless assertions:

    His solutions include teacher pay and charter school proposals that have met resistance among members of teachers unions, which constitute an important segment of the Democratic Party.

    Obama acknowledged that conflict, saying, “Too many supporters of my party have resisted the idea of rewarding excellence in teaching with extra pay, even though we know it can make a difference in the classroom.”

    But hey… don’t let facts get in the way. We wouldn’t want that to happen.

    Your hate, and in turn baseless assertions in an attempt to discredit and attack President Obama, is kinda’ sad.

    You two continue to claim that Obama will do whatever Labor tells him to do, which has already been proven to not be true. You two continue to claim that Obama is opposed to charter schools and home schooling, and will push policies that end these things, even though the evidence shows that this idea is simply untrue. You two continue to pretend that you know what happened in Springfield, IL in the negotiations over the charter school legislation, even though it that is clearly untrue. You two continue to pretend that you understand how the education system, and in turn the certification of teachers, is related to the unionization of teachers, even though your lack of understanding is very evident.

    You two continue to claim these things, and refuse to back up your assertions with any evidence. We know why that is – it is because the evidence does not exist.

    Again, don’t let facts get in the way. We wouldn’t want your readers to know the truth.

  3. dave says:

    Hey, Hey – looks like the Obama Administration continues to push for policies that the Teachers Unions don’t like:

    Duncan to push for teachers’ merit pay:

    The Obama administration wades into potentially hostile territory Thursday, when Education Secretary Arne Duncan addresses the country’s largest teachers union on merit pay, a thorny issue for the powerful unions.

    Duncan could face the same tough response from an NEA crowd in San Diego not entirely sold on some of the pay-for-performance models that have already been floated by Obama and Duncan, such as paying more to teachers who mentor peers or who teach math and science, and for improved student achievement.

    Still, during the campaign, Obama didn’t shy away from taking on the unions, both on questions of merit pay and charter schools. Both Duncan and Obama have been full-throated supporters of charter schools, which aren’t always governed by union rules, a stance that has raised objections from the unions. It also wasn’t lost on the unions that the first school Duncan and Obama visited was a charter school.

    Things continue to come out showing that the Obama Administration is more than willing to challenge the Teachers’ Unions.

  4. amuzikman says:

    Hi, Dave – Long time, no read.
    At this point I’ll redirect you to my latest blog on the subject. This thread has run it’s course.
    If you’d like to pick up the discussion there, I’d be happy to respond.
    Cheers!

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